EDHS Contemporary World Affairs

Date: Nov 19, 2008

RE: Uruguay president vetoes abortion bill (debate!)

drewtekulve · Senior Member

Honestly, I am very indifferent on most issues. The Death Penalty - I don't give a crap, really. Abortion I wouldn't really care. However i stated my opinion that out of selfish reasons abortion shouldnt be allowed, but then i get lambasted that because I am a guy, i don't deserve an opinion on abortion.

That's where I get bent.

If anything that made me lean more to pro-life. Good job. You had the chance to probably convince me more, but you guys failed.

And thus i close my argument.

-- Edited by drewtekulve at 18:24, 2008-11-19

CharlieBurling · Veteran Member

Anonymous wrote:

drewtekulve wrote:

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

I can judge and will continue to judeg because I am a human being, watching other human beings kill their children. When a mom drowns her child in a bathtub we scold her and call her a monster. But when she has an abortion, we call it her right. So let's just allow women to smother their sleeping babies, because she doesn't want to deal with it anymore

okay you are a man. You have absolutely no idea and never will know what it feels like to feel trapped in a situation like that. Personally if i got pregnant my dad would kick me out so I am not getting pregnant thats it but I really cant imagine how you or any man can have an opinion

So what both you and Becca are saying is that because Robert and I are guys, we not subjected to have an opinion on abortion? Just because man is no way involved? Let me remind you, we provide the semen for impregnation, thus at least making us SOMEWHAT involved in this process. I mean c'mon, "you know what i mean?"

how the gender line validates your argument is beyond me and all men in that matter.

-- Edited by drewtekulve at 22:10, 2008-11-18
listen i know how a baby is made and i realize that it involves both a man and a women but the man isnt the one in the total crap fest its the women and I'm sorry but im sticking by my argument that men shouldnt have any say in whether or not abortion is wrong or right.

That is a sexist statement. Should straight people not be able to vote on gay rights issues? Should able bodied people not be able to vote on mentally and physically handicapped issues?

Disenfranchising is wrong, period.

-- Edited by CharlieBurling at 18:29, 2008-11-19

-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi at 19:05, 2008-11-19

LauraHernandez17 · Senior Member

CharlieBurling wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

drewtekulve wrote:

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

I can judge and will continue to judeg because I am a human being, watching other human beings kill their children. When a mom drowns her child in a bathtub we scold her and call her a monster. But when she has an abortion, we call it her right. So let's just allow women to smother their sleeping babies, because she doesn't want to deal with it anymore

okay you are a man. You have absolutely no idea and never will know what it feels like to feel trapped in a situation like that. Personally if i got pregnant my dad would kick me out so I am not getting pregnant thats it but I really cant imagine how you or any man can have an opinion

So what both you and Becca are saying is that because Robert and I are guys, we not subjected to have an opinion on abortion? Just because man is no way involved? Let me remind you, we provide the semen for impregnation, thus at least making us SOMEWHAT involved in this process. I mean c'mon, "you know what i mean?"

how the gender line validates your argument is beyond me and all men in that matter.

-- Edited by drewtekulve at 22:10, 2008-11-18
listen i know how a baby is made and i realize that it involves both a man and a women but the man isnt the one in the total crap fest its the women and I'm sorry but im sticking by my argument that men shouldnt have any say in whether or not abortion is wrong or right.

That is a sexist statement. Should straight people not be able to vote on gay rights issues? Should able bodied people not be able to vote on mentally and physically handicapped issues?

Disenfranchising is wrong, period.

-- Edited by CharlieBurling at 18:29, 2008-11-19

okay, maybe i didn't make myself very clear but if you are in a relationship or are having relations with the girl who is pregnant then i think of course you should have an opinion on whether or not the girl should have the baby but i think that a man to sit there and judge women they don't even know is not your place, because you don't know what its like and i think for most women abortion isn't just a "whatever" thing, its a huge decision but in the end (most of the time) its the women thats left with the burden of raising a child that they cant. and comparing abortion to handicapped people.. i dont think so, totally different..

-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi at 19:04, 2008-11-19

-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi at 19:05, 2008-11-19

krea · Senior Member

men should have a say. he is the parent of the kid too... it wouldnt be fair if he didnt get a say in whether his kid lived or not but thats usually not the case with abortions

LauraHernandez17 · Senior Member

krea wrote:

men should have a say. he is the parent of the kid too... it wouldnt be fair if he didnt get a say in whether his kid lived or not but thats usually not the case with abortions

what i just said homes.

Zach_V · Senior Member

CharlieBurling wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

drewtekulve wrote:

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

I can judge and will continue to judeg because I am a human being, watching other human beings kill their children. When a mom drowns her child in a bathtub we scold her and call her a monster. But when she has an abortion, we call it her right. So let's just allow women to smother their sleeping babies, because she doesn't want to deal with it anymore

okay you are a man. You have absolutely no idea and never will know what it feels like to feel trapped in a situation like that. Personally if i got pregnant my dad would kick me out so I am not getting pregnant thats it but I really cant imagine how you or any man can have an opinion

So what both you and Becca are saying is that because Robert and I are guys, we not subjected to have an opinion on abortion? Just because man is no way involved? Let me remind you, we provide the semen for impregnation, thus at least making us SOMEWHAT involved in this process. I mean c'mon, "you know what i mean?"

how the gender line validates your argument is beyond me and all men in that matter.

-- Edited by drewtekulve at 22:10, 2008-11-18
listen i know how a baby is made and i realize that it involves both a man and a women but the man isnt the one in the total crap fest its the women and I'm sorry but im sticking by my argument that men shouldnt have any say in whether or not abortion is wrong or right.

That is a sexist statement. Should straight people not be able to vote on gay rights issues? Should able bodied people not be able to vote on mentally and physically handicapped issues?

Disenfranchising is wrong, period.

-- Edited by CharlieBurling at 18:29, 2008-11-19

Charlie has it completely right. Men deserve a say in abortion. Just because the baby comes out of your body doen't mean it doen't effect men.

-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi at 19:03, 2008-11-19

LauraHernandez17 · Senior Member

Zach_V wrote:

CharlieBurling wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

drewtekulve wrote:

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

I can judge and will continue to judeg because I am a human being, watching other human beings kill their children. When a mom drowns her child in a bathtub we scold her and call her a monster. But when she has an abortion, we call it her right. So let's just allow women to smother their sleeping babies, because she doesn't want to deal with it anymore

okay you are a man. You have absolutely no idea and never will know what it feels like to feel trapped in a situation like that. Personally if i got pregnant my dad would kick me out so I am not getting pregnant thats it but I really cant imagine how you or any man can have an opinion

So what both you and Becca are saying is that because Robert and I are guys, we not subjected to have an opinion on abortion? Just because man is no way involved? Let me remind you, we provide the semen for impregnation, thus at least making us SOMEWHAT involved in this process. I mean c'mon, "you know what i mean?"

And how the gender line validates your argument is beyond me and all men in that matter.

-- Edited by drewtekulve at 22:10, 2008-11-18
listen i know how a baby is made and i realize that it involves both a man and a women but the man isnt the one in the total crap fest its the women and I'm sorry but im sticking by my argument that men shouldnt have any say in whether or not abortion is wrong or right.

That is a sexist statement. Should straight people not be able to vote on gay rights issues? Should able bodied people not be able to vote on mentally and physically handicapped issues?

Disenfranchising is wrong, period.

-- Edited by CharlieBurling at 18:29, 2008-11-19
Charlie has it completely right. Men deserve a say in abortion. Just because the baby comes out of your body doen't mean it doen't effect men.

DEAR GOD PEOPLE, read my last post, if you are directly involved in the pregnancy judge ALLLL you want but if some 16 year old girl messes up and gets pregnant its none of your business your not the father and you cant relate to that situation. my god.

-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi at 19:02, 2008-11-19

KSF{Kodies} · Senior Member

wow no comment

rtheisen · Senior Member

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

Zach_V wrote:

CharlieBurling wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

drewtekulve wrote:

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

I can judge and will continue to judeg because I am a human being, watching other human beings kill their children. When a mom drowns her child in a bathtub we scold her and call her a monster. But when she has an abortion, we call it her right. So let's just allow women to smother their sleeping babies, because she doesn't want to deal with it anymore

okay you are a man. You have absolutely no idea and never will know what it feels like to feel trapped in a situation like that. Personally if i got pregnant my dad would kick me out so I am not getting pregnant thats it but I really cant imagine how you or any man can have an opinion

So what both you and Becca are saying is that because Robert and I are guys, we not subjected to have an opinion on abortion? Just because man is no way involved? Let me remind you, we provide the semen for impregnation, thus at least making us SOMEWHAT involved in this process. I mean c'mon, "you know what i mean?"

how the gender line validates your argument is beyond me and all men in that matter.

-- Edited by drewtekulve at 22:10, 2008-11-18
listen i know how a baby is made and i realize that it involves both a man and a women but the man isnt the one in the total crap fest its the women and I'm sorry but im sticking by my argument that men shouldnt have any say in whether or not abortion is wrong or right.

That is a sexist statement. Should straight people not be able to vote on gay rights issues? Should able bodied people not be able to vote on mentally and physically handicapped issues?

Disenfranchising is wrong, period.

-- Edited by CharlieBurling at 18:29, 2008-11-19
Charlie has it completely right. Men deserve a say in abortion. Just because the baby comes out of your body doen't mean it doen't effect men.

DEAR GOD PEOPLE, read my last post, if you are directly involved in the pregnancy judge ALLLL you want but if some 16 year old girl messes up and gets pregnant its none of your business your not the father and you cant relate to that situation. my god.

we are simply putting ourselves in their shoes, don't get your undies in a bundle

-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi at 19:02, 2008-11-19

-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi at 19:03, 2008-11-19

Zach_V · Senior Member

We are all human and we all judge everything and everyone whether you'll admit it or not. So I will judge dumb 16 year olds who get knocked up.

alliestoom · Senior Member

KSF{Kodies} wrote:

wow no comment

NOT

drewtekulve · Senior Member

alliestoom wrote:

KSF{Kodies} wrote:

wow no comment

NOT

:D

cstair23 · Senior Member

hahahahaha
play nice children....

abortion sucks
the fact of the matter is that it sometimes
not all the time
has to be done

and it is in that way
a woman's choice to do it or not

and to take away that choice
is not good

rtheisen · Senior Member

drewtekulve wrote:

alliestoom wrote:

KSF{Kodies} wrote:

wow no comment

NOT

:D

Q("Q)

drewtekulve · Senior Member

rtheisen wrote:

drewtekulve wrote:

alliestoom wrote:

KSF{Kodies} wrote:

wow no comment

NOT

:D

Q("Q)

o|-<|:

krea · Senior Member

Zach_V wrote:

We are all human and we all judge everything and everyone whether you'll admit it or not. So I will judge dumb 16 year olds who get knocked up.

what about the 16 year olds who get raped?

rtheisen · Senior Member

krea wrote:

Zach_V wrote:

We are all human and we all judge everything and everyone whether you'll admit it or not. So I will judge dumb 16 year olds who get knocked up.

what about the 16 year olds who get raped?

getting raped and getting knocked up is different. One is consented sex, the other is a crime

kb · Senior Member

What if the 16 year old got raped and wanted an abortion?

There's no such thing as pro-circumstantial

LauraHernandez17 · Senior Member

girls rule boys drool
im done!
:D
verry nice

krea · Senior Member

but abortion would be for all not for one or the other

and i wanted zach to reply to that

-- Edited by krea at 19:06, 2008-11-19

rtheisen · Senior Member

kb wrote:

What if the 16 year old got raped and wanted an abortion?

There's no such thing as pro-circumstantial

pro-circumstantial, i think i'll call myself that now...

alliestoom · Senior Member

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

girls rule boys drool
im done!
:D
verry nice

-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi at 18:49, 2008-12-04

Beccawicks · Senior Member

kb wrote:

What if the 16 year old got raped and wanted an abortion?

There's no such thing as pro-circumstantial

Ha.
Pro-circumstantial...
thats funny.

drewtekulve · Senior Member

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

girls rule boys drool
im done!
:D
verry nice

i can bench press 500 lbs.

alliestoom · Senior Member

alliestoom wrote:

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

girls rule boys drool
im done!
:D
verry nice

-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi at 18:51, 2008-12-04

Zach_V · Senior Member

krea wrote:

Zach_V wrote:

We are all human and we all judge everything and everyone whether you'll admit it or not. So I will judge dumb 16 year olds who get knocked up.

what about the 16 year olds who get raped?

That's a different story. I have no problem with someone getting an abortion if they were raped. I'm pro-choice in general but I still look down on the loose 16 year olds who get pregnant.

meganrizzo · Veteran Member

I don't understand why a man can't have an opinion on this issue, someone said? Just because men cannot have abortions (besides maybe the pregnant man with a uterus if he wanted to) doesn't mean they can't imagine what it would be like to have one. I have never had one and i don't even know what it's like so does that mean i can only have an opinion because i am a woman!? Everyone certainly can have an opinion is all i am saying. Well anyways, i feel abortions just shouldn't be allowed because it's murder. muder = wrong

THE END

rtheisen · Senior Member

meganrizzo wrote:

I don't understand why a man can't have an opinion on this issue, someone said? Just because men cannot have abortions (besides maybe the pregnant man with a uterus if he wanted to) doesn't mean they can't imagine what it would be like to have one. I have never had one and i don't even know what it's like so does that mean i can only have an opinion because i am a woman!? Everyone certainly can have an opinion is all i am saying. Well anyways, i feel abortions just shouldn't be allowed because it's murder. muder = wrong

THE END

Here, here! I second that motion

LauraHernandez17 · Senior Member

rtheisen wrote:

meganrizzo wrote:

I don't understand why a man can't have an opinion on this issue, someone said? Just because men cannot have abortions (besides maybe the pregnant man with a uterus if he wanted to) doesn't mean they can't imagine what it would be like to have one. I have never had one and i don't even know what it's like so does that mean i can only have an opinion because i am a woman!? Everyone certainly can have an opinion is all i am saying. Well anyways, i feel abortions just shouldn't be allowed because it's murder. muder = wrong

THE END

Here, here! I second that motion

okay, im over the whole men can't have an opinion thing even though i still think they shouldnt sit there and say its wrong because they won't ever be put in a position where they will need to choose for themselves BUT as far as it being "murder" its not a fact that the baby is a human, it has no brain function but its not a fact that the baby isn't a human so untill that fact is proven I don't think anyone should call it murder.

rtheisen · Senior Member

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

rtheisen wrote:

meganrizzo wrote:

I don't understand why a man can't have an opinion on this issue, someone said? Just because men cannot have abortions (besides maybe the pregnant man with a uterus if he wanted to) doesn't mean they can't imagine what it would be like to have one. I have never had one and i don't even know what it's like so does that mean i can only have an opinion because i am a woman!? Everyone certainly can have an opinion is all i am saying. Well anyways, i feel abortions just shouldn't be allowed because it's murder. muder = wrong

THE END

Here, here! I second that motion

okay, im over the whole men can't have an opinion thing even though i still think they shouldnt sit there and say its wrong because they won't ever be put in a position where they will need to choose for themselves BUT as far as it being "murder" its not a fact that the baby is a human, it has no brain function but its not a fact that the baby isn't a human so untill that fact is proven I don't think anyone should call it murder.

well I did a little research online, and I found that during week 4 of pregnancy, the baby develops nerves, a spine and spinal chord. Week 6, blood is being pumped and eyes and ears begin to develop.Week 7, the brain starts to develop, and you can see a nose, and limbs beginning to grow. Week 8, there is a heart beat.

This is the website I looked at. Make your own conclusions, but I truly believe it is a human.

http://www.pregnancy-period.com/first_trimester_pregnancy_week_by_week.html

Beccawicks · Senior Member

meganrizzo wrote:

I don't understand why a man can't have an opinion on this issue, someone said? Just because men cannot have abortions (besides maybe the pregnant man with a uterus if he wanted to) doesn't mean they can't imagine what it would be like to have one. I have never had one and i don't even know what it's like so does that mean i can only have an opinion because i am a woman!? Everyone certainly can have an opinion is all i am saying. Well anyways, i feel abortions just shouldn't be allowed because it's murder. muder = wrong

THE END

The whole thing has been taken out of proportion. It was never meant, and I'm sorry if my post ever implied in my frustration, that I don't think men are allowed an opinion. And Laura didn't mean that either. An opinion is being either pro-life or pro-choice. I have a serious problem with men (and frankly anyone for that matter) but especially a man, who has no comprehension of that decision, saying that it should be an easy decision. That is trivializing abortion which is no thing to be trivialized. I don't believe a man can fathom that because frankly there is no way for a man to carry a child. (THE PREGNANT MAN IS A WOMAN OR AT LEAST WOMAN ENOUGH) They know and have no way of changing that fact. That is not an easy decision for anyone. And if it is an easy decision, then that woman may have some mental issues, or at least is incredibly irresponsible. It bothers me when someone says pro-abortion instead of pro-choice. Just because a person is pro-choice does not mean that they themselves are going to have an abortion. Or that they will ever consider an abortion. But being pro-choice simply means that you are open minded enough to think that these things aren't just black and white. Its not just some skank or an innocent rape victim. There is a gray area for everything in life. If you are avidly pro-life (even if you are a man), I have nothing against your opinion, nor do I think you are stupid, ignorant, a "simple minded peasant", etc. But as Kendra said, I don't think you can be "pro-circumstantial". If you are pro-life then I think a life is a life is a life. And if you are pro-choice, a choice is a choice is a choice. Whether or not the choices someone makes is the right one, is really so far beyond anyone's comprehension unless you are that individual. In conclusion, I am sorry if my words were misused/taken out of context/poorly chosen/etc, it did not mean that men shouldn't speak on this issue, obviously if you are directly involved in a pregnancy. But I feel that it truly is an issue of women's rights. And in the ultimate decision, it is the woman's choice.

LauraHernandez17 · Senior Member

rtheisen wrote:

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

rtheisen wrote:

meganrizzo wrote:

I don't understand why a man can't have an opinion on this issue, someone said? Just because men cannot have abortions (besides maybe the pregnant man with a uterus if he wanted to) doesn't mean they can't imagine what it would be like to have one. I have never had one and i don't even know what it's like so does that mean i can only have an opinion because i am a woman!? Everyone certainly can have an opinion is all i am saying. Well anyways, i feel abortions just shouldn't be allowed because it's murder. muder = wrong

THE END

Here, here! I second that motion

okay, im over the whole men can't have an opinion thing even though i still think they shouldnt sit there and say its wrong because they won't ever be put in a position where they will need to choose for themselves BUT as far as it being "murder" its not a fact that the baby is a human, it has no brain function but its not a fact that the baby isn't a human so untill that fact is proven I don't think anyone should call it murder.

well I did a little research online, and I found that during week 4 of pregnancy, the baby develops nerves, a spine and spinal chord. Week 6, blood is being pumped and eyes and ears begin to develop.Week 7, the brain starts to develop, and you can see a nose, and limbs beginning to grow. Week 8, there is a heart beat.

This is the website I looked at. Make your own conclusions, but I truly believe it is a human.

http://www.pregnancy-period.com/first_trimester_pregnancy_week_by_week.html

i don't deny that that thing growing inside a woman has all those features but i don't see anywhere in there that it says that it is a human and thats fine, you believe it is and i believe its not and i cant sit here and tell you im right and you cant sit there and say youre right because its still an unknown thing, ya know?

rtheisen · Senior Member

i understand what you are saying Becca, I know it has to be one of the hardest decisions ever to be made, I'm not saying it is easy. I'm sure we both agree that abortion is terrible, and it is unfortunate that it even exists. I just think it would be easier on women if they didn't have to make the choice, while you are defending your belief that they should have a choice.

But I have to ask, I know it must be difficult for a parent, male or female, to give up their child for adoption, but don't you think the parents would be happier knowing that their child is alive and doing well? Also, what about surrogate mother, who has the baby and then gives it up to the parents, they always have to give up the baby they gave birth to. Just something to think about, and I'm interested to know what you think on those. Let me know.

rtheisen · Senior Member

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

rtheisen wrote:

LauraHernandez17 wrote:

rtheisen wrote:

meganrizzo wrote:

I don't understand why a man can't have an opinion on this issue, someone said? Just because men cannot have abortions (besides maybe the pregnant man with a uterus if he wanted to) doesn't mean they can't imagine what it would be like to have one. I have never had one and i don't even know what it's like so does that mean i can only have an opinion because i am a woman!? Everyone certainly can have an opinion is all i am saying. Well anyways, i feel abortions just shouldn't be allowed because it's murder. muder = wrong

THE END

Here, here! I second that motion

okay, im over the whole men can't have an opinion thing even though i still think they shouldnt sit there and say its wrong because they won't ever be put in a position where they will need to choose for themselves BUT as far as it being "murder" its not a fact that the baby is a human, it has no brain function but its not a fact that the baby isn't a human so untill that fact is proven I don't think anyone should call it murder.

well I did a little research online, and I found that during week 4 of pregnancy, the baby develops nerves, a spine and spinal chord. Week 6, blood is being pumped and eyes and ears begin to develop.Week 7, the brain starts to develop, and you can see a nose, and limbs beginning to grow. Week 8, there is a heart beat.

This is the website I looked at. Make your own conclusions, but I truly believe it is a human.

http://www.pregnancy-period.com/first_trimester_pregnancy_week_by_week.html

i don't deny that that thing growing inside a woman has all those features but i don't see anywhere in there that it says that it is a human and thats fine, you believe it is and i believe its not and i cant sit here and tell you im right and you cant sit there and say youre right because its still an unknown thing, ya know?

I understand, and respect your opinion. I just think of it differently, that's what makes us human.

Beccawicks · Senior Member

My belief is that taking the choice away, will do more harm then good. Because the women that are absolutely going to get abortions, are going to get abortions, no matter how difficult it is. Which I believe endangers more lives. For those that are simply fiddling with the notion, yes, if the option is gone its just going to be gone. But abortion is usually a desperate turn. And as the saying goes, desperate times call for desperate measures.

Yes. And I think that if you have no reason other than you don't want to have a child, you should have the child and put it up for adoption. However, like I've been saying there are circumstances that we are not aware of in personal cases. I mean I could give you a list of hypothetical situations, but I believe we can both agree that adoption is a great thing. I feel though, that sometimes it really isn't an option. Because while the pregnancy itself may not be hurting the mother, an outside force could. Hypothetically.

I applaud surrogate mothers. I really do. To be able to do that for sometimes a complete stranger is remarkable. And I imagine its a difficult thing, I know I could never do it. I wouldn't compare it to abortion though, if thats what you meant. But its a remarkable thing and more power to women who do that.

rtheisen · Senior Member

Beccawicks wrote:

My belief is that taking the choice away, will do more harm then good. Because the women that are absolutely going to get abortions, are going to get abortions, no matter how difficult it is. Which I believe endangers more lives. For those that are simply fiddling with the notion, yes, if the option is gone its just going to be gone. But abortion is usually a desperate turn. And as the saying goes, desperate times call for desperate measures.

Yes. And I think that if you have no reason other than you don't want to have a child, you should have the child and put it up for adoption. However, like I've been saying there are circumstances that we are not aware of in personal cases. I mean I could give you a list of hypothetical situations, but I believe we can both agree that adoption is a great thing. I feel though, that sometimes it really isn't an option. Because while the pregnancy itself may not be hurting the mother, an outside force could. Hypothetically.

I applaud surrogate mothers. I really do. To be able to do that for sometimes a complete stranger is remarkable. And I imagine its a difficult thing, I know I could never do it. I wouldn't compare it to abortion though, if thats what you meant. But its a remarkable thing and more power to women who do that.

I think getting rid of abortion won't result in as much trouble as you do. Of course, there will always be abortions, legal or not, but I think if it were illegal, most women wouldn't want to risk having a back alley abortion. Some obviously will, but we probably will never find out which one of us is right on that matter.

And no, I wasn't comparing a surrogate mother to abortion, but more to adoption. Since in both cases they have the baby, but then give it up. I think it is extremely brave of them to sacrifice their bodies for someone else's child. Some many things could go wrong. Not something I plan to do during my life time. I just want babies to be born healthy, and be raised by loving, nurturing parents like I was. And I do understand that it doesn't happen as often as it should.

Beccawicks · Senior Member

I see your point 100%. I've just heard horror stories from women who grew up before Roe v. Wade and how common it was then for back alley abortions. I don't think it would be any different now then it was then if abortion became illegal. But you are right, the likelihood of us ever knowing the answer is miniscule.

I figured you weren't, cause I really didn't see how surrogate=abortion. I agree whole-heartedly that it is incredibly brave. I think its obvious that every sane person wants babies to be raised in a loving and nurturing environment. Absolutely. My opinion is that unfortunately in our world things can never be that simple and I think that taking away the choice is more dangerous than having it.

Obviously we will go in circles on this one. As we all have been. If you are pro-life, then do not have an abortion, or if you are male do not be with a woman who will have an abortion if she gets pregnant. If you are pro-choice, then make that decision when the time comes. And I really hope it is the right decision for the person's life, , I hope that they never live to regret it, whether its having the child or having an abortion, because obviously we hear stories of it going both ways.

rtheisen · Senior Member

This is my 100th post, and I'm glad Becca and I have settled our differences. If we can do it, so can you!

Q("Q)

-- Edited by rtheisen at 07:05, 2008-11-20

Beccawicks · Senior Member

rtheisen wrote:

This is my 100th post, and I'm glad Becca and I have settled our differences. If we can do it, so can you!

Q("Q)

-- Edited by rtheisen at 07:05, 2008-11-20

This is my 130th post. Indeed, lesson learned friends.

Danika · Veteran Member

"a person's a person no matter how small"

-Dr. Seuss

rtheisen · Senior Member

Q(''Q) last post!!! BUH HUH HA!!

-- Edited by rtheisen at 08:53, 2009-02-01