EDHS Contemporary World Affairs

Bonemail-(Christophe K) · Senior Member

My Alien friend

geriatric1991 · Senior Member

I think amnesty and loosening the restrictions to get into the country are in order

Ayesha · Veteran Member

If the 8.1 million undocumented immigrants who cut lawns, bus tables and perform other jobs disappeared overnight, the nation's economy would lose nearly $1.8 trillion in annual spending.

Texas, the second-hardest-hit state after California, would lose 1.2 million undocumented workers and $220.7 billion in expenditures.

Just consider the fact that if there will not be an illegal immigrant picking potatoes on the field for $4 an hour, you will pay $10 for a bag of potatoes in the supermarket. Everything will go up in terms of groceries for you by as much as 50 percent. And now consider another fact: what American would go into the fields to pick up veggies for $4 an hour - no insurance, no benefits? Straight $4, or maybe even less an hour? Would you?

KW00D · Senior Member

We have more important things to deal with than Immigration.
It will always be there, illegal or not, so we're really not in any position to do anything.

We're supposed to be 'the land of opportunity,' and we really shouldn't discriminate against those who reside here. If they're illegal then they don't have the opportunities that we do, but they're not stupid. They know to stay out of trouble and they know to take the jobs no one else will do.
I mean really. How many white guys do you know will swallow their pride and cut some grass to put food on the table, especially in this time of economic hardship?

[(JordanA.)] · Senior Member

Ayesha wrote:

If the 8.1 million undocumented immigrants who cut lawns, bus tables and perform other jobs disappeared overnight, the nation's economy would lose nearly $1.8 trillion in annual spending.

Texas, the second-hardest-hit state after California, would lose 1.2 million undocumented workers and $220.7 billion in expenditures.

Just consider the fact that if there will not be an illegal immigrant picking potatoes on the field for $4 an hour, you will pay $10 for a bag of potatoes in the supermarket. Everything will go up in terms of groceries for you by as much as 50 percent. And now consider another fact: what American would go into the fields to pick up veggies for $4 an hour - no insurance, no benefits? Straight $4, or maybe even less an hour? Would you?

i agree.. we kind of need them, they do jobs that we dont want to do...

Bonemail-(Christophe K) · Senior Member

Ayesha wrote:

If the 8.1 million undocumented immigrants who cut lawns, bus tables and perform other jobs disappeared overnight, the nation's economy would lose nearly $1.8 trillion in annual spending.

Texas, the second-hardest-hit state after California, would lose 1.2 million undocumented workers and $220.7 billion in expenditures.

Just consider the fact that if there will not be an illegal immigrant picking potatoes on the field for $4 an hour, you will pay $10 for a bag of potatoes in the supermarket. Everything will go up in terms of groceries for you by as much as 50 percent. And now consider another fact: what American would go into the fields to pick up veggies for $4 an hour - no insurance, no benefits? Straight $4, or maybe even less an hour? Would you?

So what's your solution to fix the problem. They can also commit crimes and vote but have no documentation to back up any of them. As mcuh as they are good there is a bad side so what do you suggest we do to fix it?

BrianaV · Veteran Member

I don' t think any American would work for $4 an hour... HA and Ayesha i agree with you 100% prices would go up on groceries dramatically. I don't see anyone else working in the beating sun picking vegetabales or mowing your lawn.
SO my question is the same as Ayesha WOULD YOU ?

Snackycakes · Senior Member

Ayesha wrote:

If the 8.1 million undocumented immigrants who cut lawns, bus tables and perform other jobs disappeared overnight, the nation's economy would lose nearly $1.8 trillion in annual spending.

Texas, the second-hardest-hit state after California, would lose 1.2 million undocumented workers and $220.7 billion in expenditures.

Just consider the fact that if there will not be an illegal immigrant picking potatoes on the field for $4 an hour, you will pay $10 for a bag of potatoes in the supermarket. Everything will go up in terms of groceries for you by as much as 50 percent. And now consider another fact: what American would go into the fields to pick up veggies for $4 an hour - no insurance, no benefits? Straight $4, or maybe even less an hour? Would you?

The fact that they aren't legal Americans justifies our Nation to use them for manual labor with low wages and no benefits? Labor laws were put in effect to prevent those conditions.

BrianaV · Veteran Member

KW00D wrote:

We have more important things to deal with than Immigration.
It will always be there, illegal or not, so we're really not in any position to do anything.

We're supposed to be 'the land of opportunity,' and we really shouldn't discriminate against those who reside here. If they're illegal then they don't have the opportunities that we do, but they're not stupid. They know to stay out of trouble and they know to take the jobs no one else will do.
I mean really. How many white guys do you know will swallow their pride and cut some grass to put food on the table, especially in this time of economic hardship?

:]

EXACTLY!

Ayesha · Veteran Member

they could give them permission for being here if they stay away from crime. if they don't they'll be deported? but i'm not sure. i wouldn't be able to think of a good solution. all i was saying is that although there are cons to having them here, there are more pros.

Ayesha · Veteran Member

Snackycakes wrote:

Ayesha wrote:

If the 8.1 million undocumented immigrants who cut lawns, bus tables and perform other jobs disappeared overnight, the nation's economy would lose nearly $1.8 trillion in annual spending.

Texas, the second-hardest-hit state after California, would lose 1.2 million undocumented workers and $220.7 billion in expenditures.

Just consider the fact that if there will not be an illegal immigrant picking potatoes on the field for $4 an hour, you will pay $10 for a bag of potatoes in the supermarket. Everything will go up in terms of groceries for you by as much as 50 percent. And now consider another fact: what American would go into the fields to pick up veggies for $4 an hour - no insurance, no benefits? Straight $4, or maybe even less an hour? Would you?

The fact that they aren't legal Americans justifies our Nation to use them for manual labor with low wages and no benefits? Labor laws were put in effect to prevent those conditions.

okay that's not what i was saying. you're making it sound like i'm against the immigrants now when i'm actually for them. they want to be here, obviously. my point is that if they're working and helping us, and they want to be here, then even though there is a bad side, it's still a good thing. and like Karen said i think we have more important things to worry about right now. seriously.

Bonemail-(Christophe K) · Senior Member

Snackycakes wrote:

Ayesha wrote:

If the 8.1 million undocumented immigrants who cut lawns, bus tables and perform other jobs disappeared overnight, the nation's economy would lose nearly $1.8 trillion in annual spending.

Texas, the second-hardest-hit state after California, would lose 1.2 million undocumented workers and $220.7 billion in expenditures.

Just consider the fact that if there will not be an illegal immigrant picking potatoes on the field for $4 an hour, you will pay $10 for a bag of potatoes in the supermarket. Everything will go up in terms of groceries for you by as much as 50 percent. And now consider another fact: what American would go into the fields to pick up veggies for $4 an hour - no insurance, no benefits? Straight $4, or maybe even less an hour? Would you?

The fact that they aren't legal Americans justifies our Nation to use them for manual labor with low wages and no benefits? Labor laws were put in effect to prevent those conditions.

Jer bear hit it on the head for my postition. I agree that most people would not want those jobs and it's nice to have someone else do it no matter what their race, creed, or religion is but those conditions are their casue they are illegal. If they were here legally then they would have to pay them minimum wage and give them better working conditions. I believe this also has the mental idea that most people have with abstinance only programs. They just don't believe that people will do it just like you guys think there will not be hard working people to take their place.

There is agriculture all over this country done by citizens of all diffrent races. Why is it that we then suggest that it must be below us when there is always a demand? I don't believe in blanket amnesty cause they have broken the law and I believe " Laws should be like death; which spares no one." I do believe it should be easier to immigrate to the U.S. then it is now but that does not excuse law breakers. I also believe that any employer should have to provide proof of citizenship or workers permit to have them as a worker. This could be singularly targeted at certain job fields that are most common for illegal workers to perform.

As for the price of this going up. That is very true but that is cause of unions pressing for better wages and working conditions. The american worker has helped caused the increase in exporting our jobs over seas by demanding that companies give more to their workers (Sometimes rightfully so). Simply though all wokers deserve decent working conditions and wages and illegal workers don't get those advantages.

geriatric1991 · Senior Member

there has been illegal immigration in this country since the beginning and we still stay strong and continue to prosper even though there are obviously times of decline i dont think it really has anything to do with the illegals. just accept what it is and what iot always will be.

and if you are one of those that always wants an answer or a distinct problem solving desision, you need to be brought into the real world of compromise because rarly if ever, is there one answer that will satisfy everyone. if you want my advice go out, find an illegal immigrant and sponser them so they can get citizenship and start paying taxes as soon as possible

is that better chris?? ahaha

-- Edited by geriatric1991 on Wednesday 1st of April 2009 06:28:36 PM

Kody Disbrow · Veteran Member

in my opinion i have no porblem with immigrants liegal or not. i think anyone who wants to come to America and make a better life for themselves and their family should. the only time i have a problem with illegal immagrants is when they come to America to exploit the oppertunities that this country has to offer them by commiting crimes and being a drag on the country instead of trying to help better it.

Luis777 · Senior Member

i think if people want a better life and they want to do that in america then let them just make sure why they sre coming over

Bam · Senior Member

I think the government should tighten up boarder security

KW00D · Senior Member

I honestly think we should kick out all the people like octomom, who do nothing productive to society. People like her leech off of our hard work and are a parasite by taking welfare without working at all.
At least the immigrants come and are productive.

Bonemail-(Christophe K) · Senior Member

So youjust except the fact that they have broken the law and move on. I grew up believng the law applied to everyone fairly no matter what. That is just hypocrisy in it's finest form.

" In matters of fashion flow with the river; in matters of principle stand like a rock."- Thomas jefferson

geriatric1991 · Senior Member

ya and once they become a citizen then they are just aliens and who doesnt love aliens? havent you ever seen ET? that kid loved that little freak that sat in the bike basket. its true that some Extra terestrials are bad like in independence day but those are just the illegals trying to get into the country. if you let them in and accept them im sure they wouldnt have destroyed the white house with there laser beams. maybe we should have will smith come to the boarder and start kickin illegal aliean butt!!! i hope that all made sense. i was just rambling

LaurrenM · Senior Member

I dont think its a big deal to be honest... Most of the time Illegal Aliens take the jobs that people dont want.. Has anyone seen A day without a Mexican? lol

Snackycakes · Senior Member

KW00D wrote:

I honestly think we should kick out all the people like octomom, who do nothing productive to society. People like her leech off of our hard work and are a parasite by taking welfare without working at all.
At least the immigrants come and are productive.

Bad idea, she would soon have enough kids to form a new nation and overthrow the U.S.

Kody Disbrow · Veteran Member

no u do not except the fact that they broke the law, u punish them just like any other person who broke the law and if they happen to be an illegal immagrant then they get deported.

Bonemail-(Christophe K) · Senior Member

KW00D wrote:

I honestly think we should kick out all the people like octomom, who do nothing productive to society. People like her leech off of our hard work and are a parasite by taking welfare without working at all.
At least the immigrants come and are productive.

Their children go to public schools which are funded by poperty taxes. They pay no income taxes since they are paid off the books which pay for emergency services and other government run things. It's not a simple wave the wand problem like we all wish it would be cause it's more then just their motives but if what they did is against our principles as a society. They broke the law and in any other case you would all say they need to be punished or made an example of but not in this case.

Why is that?

KW00D · Senior Member

Bonemail-(Christophe K) wrote:

So youjust except the fact that they have broken the law and move on. I grew up believng the law applied to everyone fairly no matter what. That is just hypocrisy in it's finest form.

" In matters of fashion flow with the river; in matters of principle stand like a rock."- Thomas jefferson

People break the law all the time. But I really think that they shouldn't be so hard on immigrants, illegal or not, because they continue to keep us productive. They take the sanitation jobs no one else will, the gardening, the hard labor no one wants to take. Yes the law applies to everyone, but before they go after the ones who are trying to make life better overall[immigrants], they should go after the ones who don't work and who are a hindrance to us first...if that makes sense?

Snackycakes · Senior Member

geriatric1991 wrote:

ya and once they become a citizen then they are just aliens and who doesnt love aliens? havent you ever seen ET? that kid loved that little freak that sat in the bike basket. its true that some Extra terestrials are bad like in independence day but those are just the illegals trying to get into the country. if you let them in and accept them im sure they wouldnt have destroyed the white house with there laser beams. maybe we should have will smith come to the boarder and start kickin illegal aliean butt!!! i hope that all made sense. i was just rambling

It made sense lawls

KW00D · Senior Member

Snackycakes wrote:

geriatric1991 wrote:

ya and once they become a citizen then they are just aliens and who doesnt love aliens? havent you ever seen ET? that kid loved that little freak that sat in the bike basket. its true that some Extra terestrials are bad like in independence day but those are just the illegals trying to get into the country. if you let them in and accept them im sure they wouldnt have destroyed the white house with there laser beams. maybe we should have will smith come to the boarder and start kickin illegal aliean butt!!! i hope that all made sense. i was just rambling

It made sense lawls

Somehow that wasn't funny.

KW00D · Senior Member

Snackycakes wrote:

KW00D wrote:

I honestly think we should kick out all the people like octomom, who do nothing productive to society. People like her leech off of our hard work and are a parasite by taking welfare without working at all.
At least the immigrants come and are productive.

Bad idea, she would soon have enough kids to form a new nation and overthrow the U.S.

HAHAHA But if they have their own nation, they wouldn't get welfare and they'd never survive ahhh!!!

geriatric1991 · Senior Member

wow and you thought my comment wasnt funny. look at that... please everyone have some compassion for the crazy 8 child lady. she has alot of problems now and it solves nothing by condeming her

-- Edited by geriatric1991 on Wednesday 1st of April 2009 06:53:47 PM

Bonemail-(Christophe K) · Senior Member

KW00D wrote:

Bonemail-(Christophe K) wrote:

So youjust except the fact that they have broken the law and move on. I grew up believng the law applied to everyone fairly no matter what. That is just hypocrisy in it's finest form.

" In matters of fashion flow with the river; in matters of principle stand like a rock."- Thomas jefferson

People break the law all the time. But I really think that they shouldn't be so hard on immigrants, illegal or not, because they continue to keep us productive. They take the sanitation jobs no one else will, the gardening, the hard labor no one wants to take. Yes the law applies to everyone, but before they go after the ones who are trying to make life better overall[immigrants], they should go after the ones who don't work and who are a hindrance to us first...if that makes sense?

It makes sense and I understand your point. I must point out though that immigrants that come over here legally then must be payed minimum wage and have their working conditions to standards that anyone here legally receives. Once again you punish those who work through the system and reward the law breaker. This is why we have immigration law cause those that obey it should prosper more then those that do not.

You guys must understand that the conditions in which they work would not exist if they were not illegal. If they were a documented worker the employer would have to give them all the benefits we are all granted by law. So prices go up... then drop minimum wage so the business can drop prices or make more profit and employ more people. There is many ways to solve this problem but it is much bigger then you could ever imagine.

Summary:

-Legal workers have to work under legal conditions. If all he workers in the fields were legal then the conditions would have to meet up to the law thus increasing the standard of work.

-Prices would go up but that is cause government has made it to where the business has to options. Cut expenditures or raise prices and people don't want either one.

-The real people loosing are the people who immigrated here legally and are now having their opportunities cut away from them by their illegal counterparts. Stop rewarding the law breakers.

-Make it easier to come to the U.S.A. but don't allow the laws of the land be forsaken for lack of sheer effort.

-- Edited by Bonemail-(Christophe K) on Wednesday 1st of April 2009 08:39:58 PM

B_Marshburn · Senior Member

LaurrenM wrote:

I dont think its a big deal to be honest... Most of the time Illegal Aliens take the jobs that people dont want.. Has anyone seen A day without a Mexican? lol

Haha I was waiting for someone to bring up that movie. I do agree with Chris on the tax idea that they are basicly getting away with paying no tax. But on the other hand as everybody else is saying no American actually wants to do the jobs that they do.

mannyg · Veteran Member

to be honest, for the most part illegals are only taking away jobs from people that don't have much of an education or any real vocational skills. If businesses can get away with paying people less for equal work why wouldn't they do that? For the americans that are getting their jobs taken away, they should accept to work for less or maybe go back to school so they can get a job that has higher requirements.

KevinDangerMann · Veteran Member

I agree.
With everything.

:I

KW00D · Senior Member

mannyg wrote:

to be honest, for the most part illegals are only taking away jobs from people that don't have much of an education or any real vocational skills. If businesses can get away with paying people less for equal work why wouldn't they do that? For the americans that are getting their jobs taken away, they should accept to work for less or maybe go back to school so they can get a job that has higher requirements.

Agreed.

Bonemail-(Christophe K) · Senior Member

mannyg wrote:

to be honest, for the most part illegals are only taking away jobs from people that don't have much of an education or any real vocational skills. If businesses can get away with paying people less for equal work why wouldn't they do that? For the americans that are getting their jobs taken away, they should accept to work for less or maybe go back to school so they can get a job that has higher requirements.

The ones loosing their jobs are legal immigrants. They have the lower education and the poor vocational skills so once again I must ask. Why provide for the law breaker?

KevinDangerMann · Veteran Member

Bonemail-(Christophe K) wrote:

mannyg wrote:

to be honest, for the most part illegals are only taking away jobs from people that don't have much of an education or any real vocational skills. If businesses can get away with paying people less for equal work why wouldn't they do that? For the americans that are getting their jobs taken away, they should accept to work for less or maybe go back to school so they can get a job that has higher requirements.

The ones loosing their jobs are legal immigrants. They have the lower education and the poor vocational skills so once again I must ask. Why provide for the law breaker?

Don't.
Just kick them out, it's that simple.

KW00D · Senior Member

KevinDangerMann wrote:

Bonemail-(Christophe K) wrote:

mannyg wrote:

to be honest, for the most part illegals are only taking away jobs from people that don't have much of an education or any real vocational skills. If businesses can get away with paying people less for equal work why wouldn't they do that? For the americans that are getting their jobs taken away, they should accept to work for less or maybe go back to school so they can get a job that has higher requirements.

The ones loosing their jobs are legal immigrants. They have the lower education and the poor vocational skills so once again I must ask. Why provide for the law breaker?

Don't.
Just kick them out, it's that simple.

It's a lot easier said than done. If you think they should be kicked out, then maybe you can track down the millions of illegal immigrants and kick them out yourself.
But good luck though. You don't know who's illegal and who isn't. And you can say papers papers papers all you want, but if kids can get fake IDs, then illegal immigrants certainly can get passable papers too.

Bonemail-(Christophe K) · Senior Member

Forces employers to get papers proving citizenship or worker permits. Match it to the databank and if it does not match up then boom! ILLEGAL! It's not enough to just look at a paper you have to compare it to the ones we know are here legally. Even fake I.D.s can't match up if kids get looked up by a police officer.

WOW that was easy!

DerChancellorJake · Guru

We need to build a wall

EDHS Contemporary World Affairs

So I found these facts very interesting about illegal immigration.By the Numbers

So I found these facts very interesting about illegal immigration.

By the Numbers