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EDHS Contemporary World Affairs -> Discussion Topics, Week G -> The destruction of an everyday miracle!
Post Info TOPIC: The destruction of an everyday miracle!
Bonemail-(Christophe K)


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The destruction of an everyday miracle!
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So like many others I went to go see the new movie Watchmen! It was an awesome movie full of action and for those with a keen eye, mounds of philosophy about life, right and wrong, corruption, etc.  At a very pivital point in the movie a quote from Dr. Manhattan made me really start to think. The quote is post just below:

Dr. Manhattan : Will you smile... if I admit I was wrong?
Silk Specter II: About what?
Dr. Manhattan : Miracles. 

It ends with astronomical odds of occuring, Like oxygen turning into gold. I've longed to witness such an event, yet I neglect that in human coupling, millions upon millions of cells compete to create life , for generation after generation, until finally, your mother loves a man, Edward Blake -the Comedian- a man she has every reason to hate. And out of that, a contradiction against unfathomable odds, it's you. Only you... that emerged... to distill so perfect a form from all that chaos. It's like turning air into gold. 
A miracle.

And so, I was wrong.
Now dry your eyes and lets go home.

This really made me think hard about how fragile life is. It is almost a perfect summary (although in a progressive story line plot) of why I am so Pro-Life. Along with many other arguements I can give this is the one I feel has the most impact on why I feel the way I feel. That no matter if you believe in a god or in evolution why would you want to destroy a miracle of nature that is the process of creating life?


-- Edited by Bonemail-(Christophe K) on Friday 20th of March 2009 05:34:25 PM

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geriatric1991


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RE: Inspiration from a movie!
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it is hard to know where to stand on this issue because while i believe in the freedom of the people to choose i believe that life is precious and babies shouldnt be killed...

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Jaymie Parkkinen
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RE: The destruction of an everyday miracle!
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It's a stretch to try and relate a movie, WATCHMEN at that, to Abortion.


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Karen Lozano :]
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i really think that Alan Moore ,the author of watchmen,has some great philosophical ideas. He just looks wacked

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Vanessabug


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I agree with Briana.
I mean even if the woman cant support the baby, adoption is a beautiful thing. so many people who want but cant physically have children would feel so happy to have the child. its not our choice whether a child should live or not. its not like there is a second chance. and you never know what could have become of that child. it makes me so sad.
The only way i think abortion is possibly acceptable is when the pregnancy is threatening the mothers life and she has other children that she needs to take care of. still though, that lady is always giong to know she took the life of that baby :( so sad

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Bonemail-(Christophe K)


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KW00D wrote:

It's a stretch to try and relate a movie, WATCHMEN at that, to Abortion.


I am talking about the quote which very much describes how life is a miracle and I relate it to how abortion is the destruction of that miracle. I don't see the problem with it at all and if you want a RL quote:


 "Any country that accepts abortion, is not teaching its people to love, but to use any violence to get what it wants." -Mother Teresa
"It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."- Mother Teresa

 



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It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. 
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KW00D


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Bonemail-(Christophe K) wrote:

KW00D wrote:

It's a stretch to try and relate a movie, WATCHMEN at that, to Abortion.


I am talking about the quote which very much describes how life is a miracle and I relate it to how abortion is the destruction of that miracle. I don't see the problem with it at all and if you want a RL quote:


 "Any country that accepts abortion, is not teaching its people to love, but to use any violence to get what it wants." -Mother Teresa
"It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."- Mother Teresa

 


According to Wikipedia.com:

'A miracle is a sensibly perceptible interruption of the laws of nature, such that can only be explained by divine intervention, and is sometimes associated with a miracle-worker. '


The development of human life does NOT defy the laws of nature, nor is it divine intervention. It's simply the splitting of Cells.  
Yes, the concept of life itself is beyond comprehension, yet grossly fascinating.
And the destruction of Human life IS disturbing beyond belief, but everyone is selfish.
There is not one person on earth who isn't selfish. No one has the right to judge others' motives, whether or not you agree with them.



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Karen Lozano :]
Bonemail-(Christophe K)


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Humans naturally group things in their minds and to do that they create judgments of all that is around them. I have the right to judge what I deem right and wrong and judge peoples motives of destroying life. They made the choice of having sex so now why kill an innocent child so they can keep living their way.

Good judgment comes from experiance and experiance comes from bad judgment. The best judgment though is when you learn from other's mistakes. If you protect the option of choice then give the one who can't make that choice the chance to.

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KW00D


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Bonemail-(Christophe K) wrote:

Humans naturally group things in their minds and to do that they create judgments of all that is around them. I have the right to judge what I deem right and wrong and judge peoples motives of destroying life. They made the choice of having sex so now why kill an innocent child so they can keep living their way.

Good judgment comes from experiance and experiance comes from bad judgment. The best judgment though is when you learn from other's mistakes. If you protect the option of choice then give the one who can't make that choice the chance to.


So you're trying to say that it's OKAY to judge others as long as YOU benefit?
I think you're proving my point.

Everyone has their own opinion of what is right and wrong. However you cannot possibly justify judging peoples' motives based on what you previously stated.  I mean, once you become a pregnant unwed female, or a pregnant female who isn't ready/can't take care of kids, you can judge. But since you won't ever be that, you are in no position to pass any type of judgement on the women who choose it. I don't pass judgement on them because I don't know what they're going through, and it's none of my business.


My opinion of abortion is not important, because unlike you, I'm not letting my beliefs dictate my opinion[in this instance]. I'm being more impartial than you think.
I'm not condoning or condemning the option of choice, but by the same token I'm not doing that for the option of life either.






-- Edited by KW00D on Saturday 21st of March 2009 07:41:01 PM

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Karen Lozano :]
Bonemail-(Christophe K)


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I can perceive what I believe to be right and wrong by my experiances. My mother thought of abortion with me so that kinda changes my whole view on this and it has nothing to do with my religous beliefs. I have been effected by the idea that I could have not exsisted because my mom just wanted to have one child (my older brother). My father was also adopted and I understand that he always wanted to know who his real parents were but if his mother had not given him up for adoption then I would not be here. My brother would not be here. My niece hailey who I would die for would not be here.You want to talk impartial just cause I am a guy then you realize that my oppinons don't just come from reason but from raw experiance. 


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Bonemail-(Christophe K) wrote:

 

I can perceive what I believe to be right and wrong by my experiances. My mother thought of abortion with me so that kinda changes my whole view on this and it has nothing to do with my religous beliefs. I have been effected by the idea that I could have not exsisted because my mom just wanted to have one child (my older brother). My father was also adopted and I understand that he always wanted to know who his real parents were but if his mother had not given him up for adoption then I would not be here. My brother would not be here. My niece hailey who I would die for would not be here.You want to talk impartial just cause I am a guy then you realize that my oppinons don't just come from reason but from raw experiance.

 


So when does raw experience turn into a miracle?
Your reasoning is all over the place whereas mine is on one track.
Non-direct Experience does NOT give you the right to judge what someone does with their life.

What you said is tragic, that you almost didn't come into existence, but you've never been in that position to make a decision like that. Granted I've never been in that position either, but you have to see it from their point of view. Abortion isn't simply the decision to ' kill an innocent child so they can keep living their way.' It's a life-changing, detrimental decision that requires months of thought and consideration. Weighing the pros and cons. And when someone goes in for an abortion, they go in KNOWING that they destroyed POSSIBLE human life. Not a chlid. A fetus. Because it's not viable. [A fetus does not have the ability to sustain life outside of the womb and that's what makes it non-viable]. The concept of abortion is so much more than you can even BEGIN to comprehend.

 



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Bonemail-(Christophe K)


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Here I shall simplify my core messages so you can understand them.

1. Abortion is wrong becasue it is desroying what nature intended.
2. A woman made a choice to have sex with a man and she does not deserve the choice to end a life cause she made a mistake.
3. Why is it that we are the only species on earth that kills it's unborn by choice. (I say by choice cause sometimes natural causes happen and that's just and unfortunate event I wish never occured.)
4. If you want to say a fetus can not maintain life on it's own how about a newborn. Put it alone in a room it won't suddenly get up and find a bottle to feed itself. It will just cry and cry till it dies of starvation and neglect. 
5. If it's such a detrimental decision for both the woman and the baby then why should it even be a choice.
6. Thanks for questioning my competence.


-- Edited by Bonemail-(Christophe K) on Saturday 21st of March 2009 08:07:46 PM

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It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. 
Samuel Adams 
KW00D


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Bonemail-(Christophe K) wrote:

Here I shall simplify my core messages so you can understand them.


1. Abortion is wrong becasue it is desroying what nature intended.
2. A woman made a choice to have sex with a man and she does not deserve the choice to end a life cause she made a mistake.
3. Why is it that we are the only species on earth that kills it's unborn by choice. (I say by choice cause sometimes natural causes happen and that's just and unfortunate event I wish never occured.)
4. If you want to say a fetus can not maintain life on it's own how about a newborn. Put it alone in a room it won't suddenly get up and find a bottle to feed itself. It will just cry and cry till it dies of starvation and neglect.
5. If it's such a detrimental decision for both the woman and the baby then why should it even be a choice.
6. Thanks for questioning my competence.


-- Edited by Bonemail-(Christophe K) on Saturday 21st of March 2009 08:07:46 PM

 



Since we're going to keep things as simple as possible, let me address each of your points:

1. If you think that abortion is wrong because it's altering what nature intended, then you should also feel that way about medicine. When someone is sick and dies, it's nature's way of 'population control,' as it were. So based off of your statement, it's safe to say then, that medicine is wrong, because it's not 'what nature intended.'

2. Sex is not always the woman's choice. [Case in point: Rape]

3. We're the only species because we're the only species that has the power to.
I'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing, but that's what it is, plain and simple. Quasi-Darwinism.

4. A newborn can sustain life alone, albeit not very long. The point is though, that it can. It is not dependent on it's mother to breathe, which as we both know, is the real foundation to sustaining life ;].

5. Every decision anyone makes is potentially detrimental. When you choose to drive a car, there's the potential of dying in a firey accident. When a woman chooses to have an abortion, there's the potential of having horrible after-effects. It's an extremely traumatic experience, that once again, you will never have experience with.

6. You're absolutely welcome. And you continue to prove my points. And don't ever question my ability to understand anything because I have far more comprehension skills than you will ever develop.



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Karen Lozano :]
Bonemail-(Christophe K)


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As much as I love debate I have learned one thing over the years. There is no point in debating someone when they start to insult. Leads to just angry retoric and blurring of moral lines.

End debate

P.S. most of me wants to keep this going but I have seen it happen to many times to let it happen again.


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Smart idea.


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Karen Lozano :]
Anonymous

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ich_binJason


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Anonymous wrote:

vw_oh_snap.gif



baseball-fail-mike.jpg



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geriatric1991


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wow this was a good debate until the insults started to fly. i find that to be a very unnecessary part of the debating process.

-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi on Tuesday 24th of March 2009 06:10:04 PM

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Jaymie Parkkinen
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geriatric1991 wrote:

wow this was a good debate until the insults started to fly.  i find that to be a very unnecessary part of the debating process.




 



-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi on Tuesday 24th of March 2009 06:06:09 PM

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Karen Lozano :]
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Billy_Mays.jpg

"HI I'M BILLY MAYS, AND I CAN'T STOP SHOUTING!!!"

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Jeremy
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shamwow.jpg

'You'll say WOW!'

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Karen Lozano :]
Bonemail-(Christophe K)


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KW00D wrote:

 

geriatric1991 wrote:

wow this was a good debate until the insults started to fly.  i find that to be a very unnecessary part of the debating process.


you didn't contribute anything to this debate.


 


No contribution is better then a misplaced one such as insults :)

 



-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi on Tuesday 24th of March 2009 06:09:37 PM

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It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. 
Samuel Adams 
KW00D


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geriatric1991 wrote:

wow this was a good debate until the insults started to fly.  i find that to be a very unnecessary part of the debating process.


you didn't contribute anything to this debate.

 


No contribution is better then a misplaced one such as insults :)

 


 



-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi on Tuesday 24th of March 2009 06:09:00 PM

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geriatric1991


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KWOOD

It is important to know what you are saying is true before you say it. i was the first to make a comment. did you not see the bread? and your comment doesnt make sense. even if it was my first contribution, how is someone's opinion less valid because it was their first time to comment? i think you are just feeling ganged up on or maybe that you are losing the debate, i think the debate should just be kept clean and not be taken so personally.



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Jaymie Parkkinen
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geriatric1991 wrote:

 

KWOOD

It is important to know what you are saying is true before you say it. i was the first to make a comment. did you not see the bread?  how is someone's opinion less valid because it was their first time to comment?i think the debate should just be kept clean and not be taken so personally.


I can definitely hold my own in a debate, and I didn't 'lose.' You stated your opinion and no one commented on it. Ergo, not part of the debate. It's possible that You feel that the debate ended in a way that was unfavorable to You

 

-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi on Tuesday 24th of March 2009 06:08:22 PM

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Karen Lozano :]
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I like the Mother Teresa quote you posted, very interesting.

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Bonemail-(Christophe K)


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geriatric1991 wrote:

wow this was a good debate until the insults started to fly.. i find that to be a very unnecessary part of the debating process.


you didn't contribute anything to this debate.

No contribution is better then a misplaced one such as insults :)

 


 


I stated you don't understand where I come from just as you mentioned that I don't understand where the women who have an abortion come from.

 



-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi on Tuesday 24th of March 2009 06:07:40 PM

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geriatric1991


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if you read my original comment you would clearly see that i favor neither side. and everyones opinion is always valid. just because its a different mind set or a new idea doesnt make it less valid. and how is me saying dont insult people a "less valid" opinion. dont take things so personally and serious, its not worth it.

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Jaymie Parkkinen
KevinDangerMann


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Hahah seriously?
Being aloof is a trait that many people find admirable, especially in a situation where arguing accomplishes NOTHING






Yeah

-- Edited by KevinDangerMann on Tuesday 24th of March 2009 05:58:41 PM

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KW00D


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geriatric1991 wrote:

wow this was a good debate until the insults started to fly.  i find that to be a very unnecessary part of the debating process.


you didn't contribute anything to this debate.


 


No contribution is better then a misplaced one such as insults :)

 



 


I stated you don't understand where I come from just as you mentioned that I don't understand where the women who have an abortion come from.


 



 



-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi on Tuesday 24th of March 2009 06:06:58 PM

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Karen Lozano :]
KevinDangerMann


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Damnn...

You gonna take that Chris?

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Bonemail-(Christophe K)


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KevinDangerMann wrote:

Damnn...

You gonna take that Chris?



Sure. It's not worth my time to give it a real responce.

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KevinDangerMann


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Oh crap!
Karen, that's one hell of an insult!

Are you just gonna let him get away with that?!


-- Edited by KevinDangerMann on Tuesday 24th of March 2009 06:07:32 PM

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geriatric1991


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good that was the point, is that its not worth losing any sleep over this issue. if you dont want the baby put up for adoption or something, there is always an answer

-- Edited by geriatric1991 on Tuesday 24th of March 2009 06:08:10 PM

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Jaymie Parkkinen
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KevinDangerMann wrote:

Oh crap!
Karen, that's one hell of an insult!

Are you just gonna let him get away with that?!


-- Edited by KevinDangerMann on Tuesday 24th of March 2009 06:07:32 PM


SNAYUP!

 



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Jeremy
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KevinDangerMann wrote:

Oh crap!
Karen, that's one hell of an insult!

Are you just gonna let him get away with that?!


-- Edited by KevinDangerMann on Tuesday 24th of March 2009 06:07:32 PM



Hahaha that wasn't really much of an insult

so I'll let him have it ;]



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KW00D


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Anonymous wrote:

 

KevinDangerMann wrote:

Oh crap!
Karen, that's one hell of an insult!

Are you just gonna let him get away with that?!


-- Edited by KevinDangerMann on Tuesday 24th of March 2009 06:07:32 PM



Hahaha that wasn't really much of an insult

so I'll let him have it ;]

 


oopsss that was me hahaha

 



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Karen Lozano :]
KevinDangerMann


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Woahh there
Chris! She just said you can't insult for beans!
You gonna let her get away with your dignity?!

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LaurrenM


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ill keep it short... so no one will debate with me.. I like babies. I wouldnt kill mine. the end

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Vanessabug


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Oh Lauren... i CAN turn this into a heart-wrenching, blood-dripping debate.
I LIKE BABIES MORE. get over it.
I wouldnt kill my baby and I wouldnt aid/advise you in killing yours either.
the real end.

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KevinDangerMann


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The real end? More like the real beginning!
Lauren, Vanessa just told you to "get over it"!
By "it" she's obviously referring to your ego! (Which I think is perfectly fine, just saying)
She thinks that because she likes babies more, she's better than you!
The nerve...

okay, enough attempts at pot-stirring, thank you! :)cav

-- Edited by MrsCavalluzzi on Wednesday 25th of March 2009 05:44:36 PM

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