EDHS Contemporary World Affairs

davidtvelasco · Veteran Member

Suit Against Gay Marriage Recognition- (debate!)

patrickisoverrated · Senior Member

Gay people are human too.
I believe that they should have all the rights heterosexual couples have.
sexual orientation discrimination is just as serious as racial discrimination, but it seems that many believe that the two are far from similar.
as for the Christian groups attempting to outlaw same-sex marriage, does anybody else see the irony in this? Didn't Jesus advocate tolerance to all?
it just seems hypocritical to me.

lauradehart · Newbie

I do not think gay marriage should be legal. Marriage is a vow between a man and a woman before God and it should be preserved.

Laura DeHart

Danika · Veteran Member

I think homosexual couples should have the same rights as heterosexual ones, but I also agree with Laura that marriage is a vow between a man and a woman. I think officially labeling same-sex marriage as "civil union" would solve a lot of problems with people who are disgruntled over homosexual marriage- it's the title.

natamakove · Veteran Member

Yeah, there is also irony in what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah...

I don't think it is a good idea to make same-sex marriages legal, at least because I don't see the reason why they cannot just live together if they want to. There are many reasons to it. Laura's reason seems one of the most important to me.

YOitsjvo · Veteran Member

i dont think it should be legal. i just dont think its right for 2 people of the same sex to get married and get all the rights of normal couples.

cstair23 · Senior Member

I agree completely with Danika. Civil Union or marriage its all the same, they re just titles. The fact is that a couple that is willing to commit to eachother for life, heterosexual or homosexual, deserve the rights they are entitled to as a couple.

Beccawicks · Senior Member

Being homosexual doesn't make you less of a person. There is no helping who you are attracted to. I think the Christian groups are being intolerant and hypocritical. How can a group proclaim Jesus's unconditional love but treat people they think are "abnormal" less then human? It is not right. Separation of church and state is a first amendment right. The belief that God does not approve should have nothing to do with the law. I thought that the notion of total equality was what this country was based on. As for the argument that civil unions and marriages are just titles, why would proclaiming the couple as married make it any different? Civil Unions, I would imagine, would be degrading. As if they aren't good enough to be married.

nicholeoli · Veteran Member

gay marriage brings on a big debate between people.
im my opinion i belive it should be kept between a man and a woman, and im not for it...but if two people of the same sex are in love, nothing should stand between that.

fabulous_erin · Veteran Member

i believe that if two people love each other no matter what the genders are they should be allowed to be married and it should be up to the government whether they should live happily ever after.

alliestoom · Senior Member

i am a very strong believer in same sex marriage. i think it's a fabulous idea and makes america such a diverse and amazing place. i think everyone has the right to love who they love and to be with who they love. it's a right every human has, and it should be kept that way. if you are gay, and your sig. other has a medical problem and you can't be considered the spouse and make decisions that would help them, how would you feel? how would you feel if you were straight? there's no difference in love, ever. if you don't want to call it marriage becuase you consider it holy or whatever else, call it a union. call it a partnership. whatever, as long as two people can be legally bound together and as long as two people love eachother.

love is love. gay, white, black, straight. it is all the same and everyone has the right to marry the person they love.

-- Edited by alliestoom at 18:34, 2008-09-05

CharlieBurling · Veteran Member

The main argument against gay marraige here seems to be that marraige is "between a man and a women". If two people love each other they should be able to get married regardless of archaic definitions and connotations.

Matt. mhm · Veteran Member

NO. Its adam and eve. NOT, adam and "steve".

adrianna_mrozek · Veteran Member

I think gay marriage should be legal. Although I was raised in a catholic family, and was always taught that it was supposed to be between man and women, but now I disagree because if you love someone, you should be allowed to be with them. Imagine if you truly loved someone, but couldnt marry them just because the government doesn't think you should. So now i believe that you should be allowed to marry whoever you want wether they are same sex or not.

Scottster · Senior Member

i think that they should be able to get married, why shouldnt they be able to be as misreable as the rest us?

JoeTwaddle · Member

Beccawicks wrote:

Being homosexual doesn't make you less of a person. There is no helping who you are attracted to. I think the Christian groups are being intolerant and hypocritical. How can a group proclaim Jesus's unconditional love but treat people they think are "abnormal" less then human? It is not right. Separation of church and state is a first amendment right. The belief that God does not approve should have nothing to do with the law. I thought that the notion of total equality was what this country was based on. As for the argument that civil unions and marriages are just titles, why would proclaiming the couple as married make it any different? Civil Unions, I would imagine, would be degrading. As if they aren't good enough to be married.

Christians arn't being intolerant and hypocritical. christians are supose to be tolerant of every person in the world, including homosexuals, because every one in the world is different and have different beliefs, which i dont see how christians are being hypocritical about homosexuals. even if it is legal to marry the same sex in the future all christians should be tolerant of whats going on in the world instead of having arguements of what the laws are.

Beccawicks · Senior Member

JoeTwaddle wrote:

Beccawicks wrote:

Being homosexual doesn't make you less of a person. There is no helping who you are attracted to. I think the Christian groups are being intolerant and hypocritical. How can a group proclaim Jesus's unconditional love but treat people they think are "abnormal" less then human? It is not right. Separation of church and state is a first amendment right. The belief that God does not approve should have nothing to do with the law. I thought that the notion of total equality was what this country was based on. As for the argument that civil unions and marriages are just titles, why would proclaiming the couple as married make it any different? Civil Unions, I would imagine, would be degrading. As if they aren't good enough to be married.

Christians arn't being intolerant and hypocritical. christians are supose to be tolerant of every person in the world, including homosexuals, because every one in the world is different and have different beliefs, which i dont see how christians are being hypocritical about homosexuals. even if it is legal to marry the same sex in the future all christians should be tolerant of whats going on in the world instead of having arguements of what the laws are.

Thats the thing though, the Christian groups are being hypocritical. The groups that are protesting this law that is completely fair, are only doing so out of intolerance for beliefs. I agree that Christians should be tolerant. But they aren't by attempting to have the laws changed because they believe it is wrong.

jessmontano · Veteran Member

I do not think that gay marriage should be legal.
If they are in love thats great but marriage is between a man and a women.

smile

cdavila · Veteran Member

I think if two people of the same sex really want to get married, nobody has the right to stop them. People have their own lifestyles.

Codenamelivi · Veteran Member

Gay marriage should definately not be legalized. Our nation was not found on homosexual belief. Marriage is between a Man And Woman...ONLY, before God.

JoeTwaddle · Member

Becca thats maybe like 25-30% of christian groups that dont really know how to be a christian and just going out on what they believe. most christians are tolerant of same sex marriage.

rtheisen · Senior Member

I have no problem with gay marriage. They are being married into state law, not the kingdom of God, therefore, the church has no business getting involved. Most are not holding their ceremony inside a church. So why is the church getting so upset? All they are saying is that they love each other, they are together, and the state recognizes it. The bible says marriage is between a man and a woman, but the government is not bound by church law.

Matt. mhm · Veteran Member

I think if it stays like this for the next 20 or so years, the younger generation will think that Gay marriage is a normal thing. I just think kids should grow up the way society has been for the last century. Ya feel me.

alliestoom · Senior Member

jessmontano wrote:

I do not think that gay marriage should be legal.
If they are in love thats great but marriage is between a man and a women.

how can you say that? if you are truley madly insanely in love you'd want to marry your sig. other right? it's not just a 'that's so super! wow! good!' kind of thing. it's a huge deal. marriage should be for everyone.

rtheisen · Senior Member

why is it taking the US to get over this. European nations are much more tolerant of peoples' differences. Let's grow up a little....

-- Edited by rtheisen at 19:04, 2008-09-05

krea · Senior Member

i believe that gay marriage should be legal but when the marriage is performed i dont think it should be under the bible. like it should be strictly a legal binding of two people because im sure the bible is definitely NOT for gay marriage.

alliestoom · Senior Member

Matt. mhm wrote:

I think if it stays like this for the next 20 or so years, the younger generation will think that Gay marriage is a normal thing. I just think kids should grow up the way society has been for the last century. Ya feel me.

no, not at all. did your parents get raised the same as your grandparents? and what about before them? if we were all rasied the same and brought up in the same world we wouldn't have an african american running for president, womens rights, child labour laws, coed education, women going to college, and we wouldn't even have cars. and who cares if generations think gay marriage is a normal thing? it's one less thing people would have prejudice for. younger americans think it's totally normal to see african americans in their community, and you know what? it is normal. people change. the world changes. issues change. if you want to grow up and raise your kids the same way you were raised, go ahead. you'd only be holding them back.

CharlieBurling · Veteran Member

rtheisen wrote:

I have no problem with gay marriage. They are being married into state law, not the kingdom of God, therefore, the church has no business getting involved. Most are not holding their ceremony inside a church. So why is the church getting so upset? All they are saying is that they love each other, they are together, and the state recognizes it. The bible says marriage is between a man and a woman, but the government is not bound by church law.

Exactly! Some people seem to forget that this great country has something called "seperation of church and state". The founding fathers had good reason to put this in.

rtheisen · Senior Member

krea wrote:

i believe that gay marriage should be legal but when the marriage is performed i dont think it should be under the bible. like it should be strictly a legal binding of two people because im sure the bible is definitely NOT for gay marriage.

that's what I said in my first response. Most are not being married into the kingdom of God, just into the state. The state is not bounded by the bible. People who are married in a church, also must get a licsense from the state, thats all the gays are doing, getting a licsense from the state

-- Edited by rtheisen at 19:06, 2008-09-05

-- Edited by rtheisen at 19:08, 2008-09-05

Beccawicks · Senior Member

Joe, I completely understand your point. But I'm talking about the article that was presented in the question. Those Christian groups. Not all christians ever.

Janell · Veteran Member

"Most are not holding their ceremony inside a church. So why is the church getting so upset?"
The problem that follows gay marriage being allowed is the effect it will have on so many other things. for example: is it is allowed , the CHURCH may not be able to say no when asked to marry a couple of the same sex because then everyone gets the idea that it is a hate crime.

patrickisoverrated · Senior Member

Codenamelivi wrote:

Gay marriage should definately not be legalized. Our nation was not found on homosexual belief. Marriage is between a Man And Woman...ONLY, before God.

Are you kidding?
did you take U.S. History?
this country was founded by those fleeing religious persecution in England, trying to make a better life for themselves which is eerily similar to homosexuals attempting to make their lives a little better for themselves and their partners, while being persecuted by the "tolerant" ultra-christian groups. I have no idea where you got the idea that this nation wasn't founded on a homosexual belief. It certainly wasn't formed under a "straight" belief. If I'm correct, and tell me if I'm wrong, this country was founded on a belief called "equality for all". "All" concerns all people living in this great country, gays included.
In addition, America has had to make adjustments before, in regard to slaves. As you know, there was a time when a black man could not marry a white woman. Obviously that is not the case any longer. If we can decide that African-americans were treated unequally in this regard, then I fail to see how sexual orientation discrimination is any different than racial discrimination.

davidtvelasco · Veteran Member

There have been some interesting comments on this issue in regards to the connection between religion and opposition to gay marriage. As such, I have attached a pole so that any speculations made towards this connection may be cleared up. Please answer honestly.

rtheisen · Senior Member

Janell wrote:

"Most are not holding their ceremony inside a church. So why is the church getting so upset?"
The problem that follows gay marriage being allowed is the effect it will have on so many other things. for example: is it is allowed , the CHURCH may not be able to say no when asked to marry a couple of the same sex because then everyone gets the idea that it is a hate crime.

The church can simply say that they don't support their actions, and that they won't allow them to have their ceremony in their establishment. Restraunts reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, same kind of deal. Even if it makes the church look bad, they shouldn't care, "Turn the other cheek". If it would just be the church upholding its beliefs, then we should admire that. We always praise those who stick to their beliefs. Let them get married, but it doesn't have to be done within the church.

KSF{Kodies} · Senior Member

i think that marriage is a term that by definition means a joining of a man and women, therefore gay marriage isnt possible. im not saying being homosexual is wrong or that it shouldnt be recognized, but they have to have their own name for the union of a man with a man or woman with a woman. marriage isnt that, and that has nothing to do with my religion or anything but the fact that a man/man or woman/woman union is not a marriage.

natamakove · Veteran Member

I've been reading this topic for a long time... the thing is, why they have to get married? Gay couples can just live together, IF they are really in love, not hunting for the money of their spouses...

davidtvelasco · Veteran Member

natamakove wrote:

I've been reading this topic for a long time... the thing is, why they have to get married? Gay couples can just live together, IF they are really in love, not hunting for the money of their spouses...

Ok, lets take this question a little further and ask: why does anyone need to get married? Why did your parents or my parents need to get married? The answer is that nobody needs to get married, they choose to. The decision to get married represents an emotional devotion to your partner and a public commitment to that love. If a couple is willing to make that commitment then they should have that opportunity, no matter who they are.

-- Edited by davidtvelasco at 05:47, 2008-09-08

JoeTwaddle · Member

KSF{Kodies} wrote:

i think that marriage is a term that by definition means a joining of a man and women, therefore gay marriage isnt possible. im not saying being homosexual is wrong or that it shouldnt be recognized, but they have to have their own name for the union of a man with a man or woman with a woman. marriage isnt that, and that has nothing to do with my religion or anything but the fact that a man/man or woman/woman union is not a marriage.

i agree with this... they should call it something else beside marriage for homosexuals

Beccawicks · Senior Member

Well said, David. I agree with you.

rtheisen · Senior Member

David's right, everyone should have the opportunity to get married.

40 years from now, our kids will say we were dumb to even consider not giving gays equal rights, just like how we scold people of the 1960's and their treatment of African Americans. If we don't study the past, we are doomed to repeat it.

christian · Newbie

i think it should stay legal i don't see why it matters let people be happy how would you like it if you couldn't marry they person you love and getting married is a big dream for lots of people when they are growing up and besides a gay couple getting married isn't hurting anyone people don't have to have the same beliefs as everyone else

Scottster · Senior Member

cant we all just get along? wat is the big deal? we are all just tryin to make our way in this mixed up crazy world, y not let them at least try to enjoy their little part of the bigger picture? wat is so sacreligious about a couple wanting to further their relationship? listen to some of the things people are saying here, how ignorant do u have to be to think like that, who gives us the right to judge people by wat they do behind closed doors, they are just as much an important person as everyone else is, we are no better than they are. this discussion shouldnt have even become this big of a deal, its not even negotiable, they ARE people, that cant be proven wrong, so how ignorant do Americans have to be to realise that EVERY PERSON is guranteed rights in this country? This country was founded on equality and representation for all, why should that change? do people against gay marriage know more about these things than the original framers of the constitiution? did they put their lives on the line, risk almost certain death for something they believed in? i simple idea of freedom? thats what these homosexuals are guranteed in the constitution, the FREEDOM to get married, so if u dont like it, move to singapore or something, cause thats wat this country is about. Religion shouldnt even come into the question, this country is not run by the church, this is no Theocracy, therefore, its not the churches RIGHT to stop these human beings from doing what they please

Janell · Veteran Member

something else i've been thinking about.... if the couple wanted to have kids? I kinda see that being a problem. Not only does the kid have a huge chance of being ridiculed for having gay parents when they are older, and we all know being a teenager is already hard enough as it is, but I also see a very unequal balance of paternal and maternal influence in their life or a complete lack there of.
Like kids with divorced parents, I'm sure that definitely takes its toll, but now we add gay single mom? gay single dad? And not only will the kid not have "mom" and "dad" but down the line they won't have "grandma" and "grandpa"
If you're not quite grasping the concept, think how different your parents are. think about how different males and females are.
its just adding another dysfunctional element to an already dysfunctional society.
plus, children are meant to be created between a man and a woman, that just how it is. and you know, not only because thats how nature intended it to be.... because of how we are physically made but maybe its also because of that balance of the mothers mentality and a fathers mentality to nurture that child's mind.

to be honest, where i am torn is the fact that i don't believe a gay person is incapable of loving a child. of course don't believe that.

natamakove · Veteran Member

davidtvelasco wrote:

natamakove wrote:

I've been reading this topic for a long time... the thing is, why they have to get married? Gay couples can just live together, IF they are really in love, not hunting for the money of their spouses...

Ok, lets take this question a little further and ask: why does anyone need to get married? Why did your parents or my parents need to get married? The answer is that nobody needs to get married, they choose to. The decision to get married represents an emotional devotion to your partner and a public commitment to that love. If a couple is willing to make that commitment then they should have that opportunity, no matter who they are.

-- Edited by davidtvelasco at 05:47, 2008-09-08

The thing is...my parents aren't gay couple...I see why it's so much fuss on this issue. In many European countries couples don't get married right off, or sometimes don't get married at all, and that's why I also was raised thinking that official marriage registration is merely a stamp in one's passport. That's why I am wondering why gay couples cannot just live together.

I still don't get the reason they have to get it officially proven - before God, before society. Until the majority will treat this as a norm, it isn't a good idea.

Beccawicks · Senior Member

"I still don't get the reason they have to get it officially proven - before God, before society. Until the majority will treat this as a norm, it isn't a good idea"

My response to this is that, people want the same opportunity to swear "before God, before society" that they are married. I fully respect that in some European countries there are different customs regarding marriage. However, this is a debate about gay marriage in the United States. I feel that the country was based on equality and I think its ignorant to say that they don't deserve the same rights. Society will not treat this as a norm until there is an opportunity for it to become socially acceptable.

rtheisen · Senior Member

Why are people so threatened by this? Just don't call it marriage, but how can people be fine with denying rights?

DerChancellorJake · Guru

I am utterly against it. Also, there ARE NO RIGHTS BEING TAKEN AWAY from gay people by not letting them marry. It is NOT a constitutional right to marry, therefore they are losing no rights. They are still treated equally in the eyes of the law, in the form of a domestic partnership. It has the same rights as marriage except that its not called the same thing. Also, look at Sodom and Gomorrah...

Kommandant_Karl · Guru

Yea they didn't lose anything so I have no clue as to what they are complaining about. Now they are treated fairly but when a regular person gets beat up they don't recieve compensation for being a hate crime.

DerChancellorJake · Guru

YES ON PROP 8!!! good thing it passed.

artferrand · Senior Member

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS ON PROP 8.... ENOUGHT SAID